The following story is the third installment of the Political Science in Arkansas interview series, where we profile political scientists throughout the state. Today, we interview Mike Rogers, a political theorist with a minor subfield in American politics. He is Professor of Political Science at Arkansas Tech University and Treasurer of the Arkansas Political Science Association. At State University of New York at Albany, he received a PhD in political science, and trained in the history of political thought, as opposed to the tendency today to focus primarily in one time period or block of political thought; and his primary theoretical interests are in democratic theory broadly construed. He teaches American Politics (American Government, Political Parties & Interest Groups, State and Local Government, the Presidency and Congress), political theory (Survey of Western Political Thought, Classical Political Thought, Modern Political Thought, and American Political Thought), a capstone senior seminar course, and research design. He has received several teaching awards through his career, including Outstanding Graduate Instructure at SUNY Albany and Faculty Excellence in Service Award at ATU. With Don Gooch (Associate Professor of political science at Stephan F Austin State University), he published the edited volume Civic Education in the 21st Century. The PS: Political Science & Politics journal will be publishing his essay “A Career-Structured Political Science Major” in a future issue.
What motivated you to study political science, specifically political theory and American politics?
I took American Government as a freshman at Wabash College and found it fascinating to learn how government actually works. I remember being struck to learn that Alzheimer’s plagued Ronald Reagan’s presidency and not just the last two years of it. I loved getting behind the façade of political life. Then, in senior seminar they passed out a pamphlet that there would be a shortage of political science faculty and I thought I could do that. Did not know that shortage did not really materialize and did not really apply to political theory.
What separates political theory from the other subfields in political science?
Sheldon Wolin’s point of creativity strikes me here. Political theorists, when not blinded by ideology, are the most likely to think outside the box and see political phenomenon in new ways. The subfield is best suited to break the restraints of the current paradigm and drive progress and paradigmatic shift. Political scientists are like the technicians trying to undercover the microlevel variables and actions driving politics of their subfield. Each technician has its specific subfield of approaches and tools it is likely to use. Then, the political theorist is like the artists in the discipline, painting the enlarged picture, finding distortions in the microlevel analysis neglected at the margins or missed due to microlevel tool and approach biases.
Where do you locate yourself in this debate between behavioralists and political theorists about theory and method?
One is not more valuable than the other. Both are essential to the discipline. In fact, they should work together. At its best, political theory develops arguments and concepts that shape the empirical research agendas of political scientists over the next several years or decades. For example, arguments about deliberative democracy fueled empirical studies of the phenomenon in practice. The discipline loses something when it forgets theory should drive enquiry and we just start collecting data and hope something emerges out of it.
What would be your top five political theory books that everyone should read, and why should they read them?
- Sheldon Wolin’s Fugitive Democracy and Other Essays
- Something just rings true in this argument about democracy being fugitive in countries like the USA, there are outbreaks of popular democracy but the norm is elite democracy or rule by representatives in conjunction with powerful interests in society.
- Benjamin Barber’s Strong Democracy
- It still seems to capture the best hope of how democracy can be realized in more meaningful ways in the world.
- Alexis de Tocqueville’s Democracy in America
- It captures through comparison of the US with France the Aristotelian point that politics often is about the tensions and balancing of interests between the wealthy and the people. This tension may be the most fundamental plaguing virtually every society and government. Understanding and mastering it seems to be key to any potential for long-term government stability free of the constant threat of force as the mechanism for peace.
- Plato’s Republic
- There is just a poetry, a symmetry of otherwise different elements, a use of dialogue and rational argument, and depth to the text that makes it a must read for anyone wanting to develop their critical reading and see the potential of political thought).
- Hobbes’s Leviathan
- For a lot of the same reasons I list Plato. The poetry is replaced by more of a scientism , e.g. “life is but a motion of limbs” but brilliant work—one that many scholars still likely misinterpret Hobbes’s true intent.”
What is civic engagement and civic education; how do they relate to the work that you do?
Civic engagement is about people finding multiple and diverse opportunities to get and be involved in their government. Civic education is about enhancing peoples political efficacy by developing their civic literacy and skills in ways that make them see how their participation can matter so they become civically engagement. As de Tocqueville suggests, the relationship between civic engagement and civic education is reciprocal and the process can originate in either direction, but when done ideally they reinforce each other.
Does reading civic engagement, civic education, and political theory literature make you optimistic or pessimistic about the power of citizenry in American politics?
Depends on what one reads. Reading this makes me much more optimistic than watching mainstream media and the 24 hours news cycle. There are numerous local stories every day of civic engagement and civic education successes. There are also frustrations, as it takes more work and intentionality in pedagogy to promote civic engagement than civic education. However, research is positive in the sense that education, and not just intentional political education—can positively increase both.
Are political science classrooms doing a good job with civic engagement and civic education? How could this education and engagement been improved?
Some faculty are, but too many still want to go into the classroom and just lecture. If your primary focus is research, it is too tempting to just minimize what is done in the classroom and civic engagement and education suffer and become rote memorization. The model is a teacher-scholar, not a scholar burdened by teaching responsibilities.
However, more and more are introducing service learning, community engagement, deliberation and other educational best practices to enhance higher education. While those involved with the Political Science Education and new Civic Engagement sections of APSA, as well as those attending the APSA Teaching and Learning Conference are a minority, there numbers and reach are growing and spreading these practices…
Is there some technique, ideas, theory, or framework that you can employ to make the apathetic and nihilistic in American politics believe in the importance of the system?
Reading Ken Bain’s What Do the Best College Teachers Do, I was really challenged to rethink the way I approach a course. One piece he advises is do not start the first day with just a boring bureaucratic lecture on the syllabus. Instead, ask a big question. I started asking students “Are you good?” and “Does it matter?” I find charting their answers on the board moves them from answering as students, analyzing answers for patterns as a political scientist would, and some even questioning what is meant by the concepts of “good” and “matter”, something a political theorist would do. Bain explains the beauty of this is that students move from being students just absorbing information from the disciplinary practitioner to being the practitioner producing disciplinary information. Now the student is hooked. This is what the best teachers do and the approach I try to reproduce in multiple classes, to make students producers of their own political science knowledge.
How do you address controversial topics in the classroom, and avoid students falling into tribalism?
First, do not avoid controversial topics into the classroom. Instead, set up some parameters to discourage students directing personalized comments at other students in the classroom. Second, shut down unacceptable comments. This is hard. You do not want the person making the comment to feel attacked but need to show the comment is not acceptable and explain why. If you have worked to establish a culture based on toleration, diversity and emphasis on facts over stereotypes throughout the semester, it can help deflate these situations when they come up. However, Hibbing and Theis-Morris have a great article on how we cannot just cut out the barbarics of politics in civic education: “Civics Is Not Enough: Teaching Barbarics in K-12”.
Does the pandemic teach us anything about American politics?
The pandemic shows the power of ideology and the heightened political polarization of the US. People are willing to deny the power of science in ways that feel like medieval times. More Americans are getting Covid-19, dying, and having not fully known and understood long-term health issues because Americans are putting the economy, sports and entertainment above human well-being and scientific advice.
Is the pandemic influencing any of the content or ideas that you are covering in political science classes this semester?
Absolutely. Meeting with just 4 classes at this point the pandemic gives an immediate real world example to illustrate political science concepts, like citizen rights versus obligations, universalism versus freedom and free expression, etc.
How has your university responded to the pandemic? What are your thoughts about how other universities and colleges have responded?
My first thought is to my university is doing the best it can in this unsettling times. We haves social distanced classes, moved a lot of instruction online, much like other universities. My second thought is I am glad we have become a much more paperless society. Given how fast practice is changing what is the current policies, we would have killed a lot of trees on reports that never see the light of day. Unfortunately, that means people are spending extensive time in meetings developing policies that are seeing large portions become outdated as fast as they write them…
You use a flipped classroom approach to your courses. Could you explain this technique, why you implemented it, what you have learned about teaching using this technique?
A flipped classroom takes a little work up front to set up. You have to have your lectures recorded and available for students to access outside of class through an LMS. The pay off, it goes back to Bain’s point, creating activities for the class meetings that facilitate students being political scientists producing their own knowledge and analysis, and developing the critical thinking skills they need to do so.
Can flipped classrooms be employed in online classes? Is there implementation significantly different than in-person classes?
They can. It still requires have lectures recorded. What becomes more challenging is students either: 1) largely do the activity on their own which is not how it is designed (e.g., try solo, pair with a student, then share in a small group ) or 2) use Zoom, Google Meet, or WebEx to let students pair and share virtually. I have not tried this but can envision how it might still work.
What advice would you offer to others considering implementing a flipped classroom in their courses?
What helped my transition was I already taught the course both face-2-face and online. So, I have the recordings already done. The second is that the REAL WORK and time consuming element is finding activities—searching the web, asking colleagues, use the new APSA Educate resources, or be creative and make them on their own. If people want to see some I developed and use, just ask.
You recently served on an American Political Science Association commission and a conference focused on revising the major in institutions across the US. What can you tell us about that experience? What were some of the major recommendations of the commission?
Surprisingly, we collectively think the 30-year-old Wahlke Report got a lot right. What it needs is updated as its recommendations lack validation by the scholarship of teaching and learning (SoTL), does not address online instruction or community colleges, fails to give a range of examples of the types of practices common in the discipline for replication, and assessment is barely referenced in it. So, while it provides a framework (rafters and framed walls), the group working on an updated set of guidelines will be adding in all the missing building materials needed to complete the 21st century political science major house.
The experience has been enlightening, seeing all the different types of institutions offering political science work together to produce a report is impressive. This will not be another report for the whole discipline that was produced by only the top tier institutions. APSA is changing.
As an initial teaser, here is the Vision the group has agreed on:
Political science aims at turning politically interested and concerned students, whatever their career plans or their other interests, into politically literate college graduates. It equips them to comprehend and engage with their political world after graduation in order to succeed in a wide variety of careers and professions in the public, nonprofit, and profit-making sectors. In addition, the political science major prepares students to become actively engaged citizens in their communities.
What previous efforts has APSA made to improve the major? How did they want to change the major in those previous efforts?
The last effort was published in 1991, which is generally known as the Wahlke Report. Efforts before this occurred in 1951 and 1915. Don’t have too much to say here other than the Wahlke report recommended more sequential or scaffolding in the political science structure but other students suggest this has had little effect—probably because most do not know it exists.
Can you tell us about your experience in ArkPSA — how long have you been a member, what offices have you held, what have you taken from your membership in the association?
I have been active in ArkPSA since arriving in Arkansas and at ATU in Fall 2007. It is a wonderful association; I consider it my second family. As for office, I rose quickly. ATU had committed to hosting but the faculty member meant to do it left so in my second year at ATU I was suddenly the program chair and in line to be president in two years. I have served as program chair, vice president, president, secretary-treasurer and am now the treasurer. Serving ArkPSA continues to be highly rewarding. I have formed lifelong friendships, there is even a group of us that golf together occasionally over the summer when the temperature is not over 100 degrees.
How has ArkPSA changed over your time in the association?
We have formalized some things to help it run more smoothly. We split the treasurer and secretary positions, we have added the distinguished scholar lifetime achievement award and, gratefully, moved our Saturday morning business meeting to Friday afternoon. We could use more faculty presentations of their research at the conference but have a healthy participation in the conference that seems to have grown a bit in the last few years. It is exciting to see the new faculty in the state embracing the organization, as that keeps it healthy for the foreseeable future.
Are there any things that you hope ArkPSA accomplishes in the near and distant future?
I would like to see ArkPSA continue to grow the reputation of the MPSR and possibly see it do more special editions (one every couple years?). I would also like to see it integrate civic education and engagement activities into its conference and practices. For example, the state would benefit from requiring American Government, if not also State and Local Government, for all its public school students.
What advice would you offer to someone considering political science as a career?
Go for it. Find graduate schools with a faculty member doing work in the area you are most interested in. Apply for a GA/TAship. As a first generation college student from a middle class family, I never fathomed becoming a professor. I have no regrets and love being a teacher-scholar-scholar.